Continuation - grinding and de-coking !

[Styria]

Well Cameron, if that's the way you want to go, I am all for it and I would certainly look forward to progressive reports if and when you get around to setting the train in motion. Also, I realize that you and I are operating on a somewhat different planet - I am talking about age, and therefore, time difference.

13:1 seems a very high ratio, even in this present day and age - I am not so sure how the internals of the engine would cope with that sort reading. I guess a lot of it comes down to the amount of money one is prepared to spend, but also what you expect from your car. I suspect on that score alone, if nothing else, we are pursuing different goals. Nothing wrong with either, they are just different.

So Cam, go for it. Keep Mercules in mind - he's a good guy. I would also be interested who you have been talking to, possibly even on the M100 site. Anyway, good luck with whatever you take on - I'll sit on the sideline, but I can barely contain my curiosity and interest. Regards Styria

 

[John S]

I wonder what fuel octane is required for 13:1 compression? Sounds like a good way to blow an engine up if the wife filled it up at the normal pump!

 

[Styria]

Just another short up-date on fuel consumption. I decided to do another check, even if not totally accurate, again by way of mileage travelled and on the number of liters that I used to achieve that mileage.

Again, just normal everyday driving etc. etc. as previously described - 50 liters of 95/98 octane to 320 kilometers. It's reasonably accurate. As soon as I get back to normal Internet speeds, I'll take a picture of a couple of spark plugs - they'd be about two months since they were cleaned and refitted to the engine.. They are Platinum Plugs (Bosch) and it will not surprise me if they will be 'spotless', so to speak. Regards Styria

 

[John S]

15.6 L/100 K's, or 18 mpg, sounds good to me Styria, especially for a 6.9!!

 

[Styria]

Hi JohnS,

Quite honestly I am tickled pink to achieve that sort of consumption. I do drive for economy with the proverbial egg-shell under the accelerator pedal, nevertheless if the occasion warrants it, I will make Gleaming Beauty move.

I also need to accede that in heavier traffic conditions such as one is likely to experience in the Inner West or the Eastern Suburbs for that matter with all of their accompanying traffic lights and heavy traffic, no 6.9 nor any 116 for that matter, will get anywhere within cooee of my consumption figures.

When I used to travel from Baulkham Hills to Blacktown, I'd use 18 to 20 liters of fuel to the 100, and that's with light traffic going all the back routes. Bumper to bumber I am sure, could increase the consumption to about 25l/100. Naturally, if I lived in any of those areas, Gleaming Beauty would spend the majority of her time in the garage. Regards Styria

 

[SELfor50]

I wonder what fuel octane is required for 13:1 compression? Sounds like a good way to blow an engine up if the wife filled it up at the normal pump!

The only day that the wife would be driving a trick 6.9 would be the day it was being used as my hearse...

I'll ask Mr Middelhauve about the type of fuel.. i'd suspect it would have been 100+ RON. Not exactly a daily driver.

Styria, that's bloody amazing fuel consumption too. Anything around the 5-600km's per tank is great fuel consumption. 600km's /tank is what i'm aiming for with EFI installed. So to hear this is possible with K-Jet is even more promising.

 

[Styria]

The only day that the wife would be driving a trick 6.9 would be the day it was being used as my hearse...

I'll ask Mr Middelhauve about the type of fuel.. i'd suspect it would have been 100+ RON. Not exactly a daily driver.

Styria, that's bloody amazing fuel consumption too. Anything around the 5-600km's per tank is great fuel consumption. 600km's /tank is what i'm aiming for with EFI installed. So to hear this is possible with K-Jet is even more promising.

Hi Cam, if it's not too much trouble, could you keep me 'up to speed' if and when you'll get into the 'nitty gritty' as far as EFI is concerned. I believe that Mercules will come to our concours/bbq at Anthony's and we might stick our heads together - you comin' ? Regards Styria

 

[SELfor50]

Hi Cam, if it's not too much trouble, could you keep me 'up to speed' if and when you'll get into the 'nitty gritty' as far as EFI is concerned. I believe that Mercules will come to our concours/bbq at Anthony's and we might stick our heads together - you comin' ? Regards Styria

I will do mate.. I'll be documenting the whole thing so that it's an easier venture for everyone else in the future.

Would love to, but not in Australia at the moment.

Cam.

 

[Styria]

It seems like an eternity since all this work was carried out. Thirteen years ago, really ? Hard to believe. So, what have I really achieved and how has it turned out ? Well, I achieved to create an absolutely bullet proof engine, and I have not experienced a single water or oil leak from any of the tasks carried out. At the time, I had he invaluable assistance of Mercules - a first class and very capable mechanic in his own right, and I also had the assistance of a guy by the name of Ross, again a very capable shall we say "home mechanic" who set up the heads for me and assisted with the refitting of the timing chain and some other components - however, in many respects, I had to cop most of the brunt of re-installation. I was meticulous and took nothing to chance.

I have to say hat since about 2013 (?) when I had a lot of bodywork and painting done by Jerry, I have used the car just sparingly. However, in just about two years, if not longer by a small margin, GB has given absolutely no trouble in her role as a "test-bed" for the checking and evaluation of suspension components - she has earned her money in that regard. I would hate to think and then say how many times I have started that engine whilst carrying out the testing. Not once have I experienced fouling of plugs or, indeed, any reluctance to start and, whatsmore, run cleanly. Again, I have been lucky in being able to strike up a friendship with a fellow 6.9 owner that is able to understand and interpret the workings and the Workshop Manual dealing with the hydraulic suspension set-up of the 6.9s system. Believe me, it is NOT easy to understand the inner workings of the system. For instance, which component is necessary to be working properly and efficiently to stop the car from collapsing after having been jacked up - the book doesn't tell you, and you've got to be pretty smart to work it all out. In closing, getting back to the valve grind and de-coke. Could I do it again ? Difficult to say, but probably not. Persons that have helped are no longer available, or simply too sick, a number of repair shops have closed, and the scope and size of the job is such that most Repairers would not want to take it on - there are easier, and quicker ways, to make money. Regards Styria

 

[Patrick_R]

Very interesting read Styria.

With today’s modern oils and fuels, a “valve grind & de coke” is a thing of the past thankfully.

 

[Styria]

Very interesting read Styria.

With today’s modern oils and fuels, a “valve grind & de coke” is a thing of the past thankfully.

Patrick, that's an interesting remark that you make. Say for instance in talking about the 6.9 or indeed of the Rover 3 litre overhead Inlet and Exhaust arrangement, using high quality oils and fuels, would that eliminate future mechanical overhauls, or do you think that it has also got to do with engine design and the manufacturing to closer tolerances ? Nowadays, on Gleaming Beauty (my 6.9), as well as our Honda Jazz and Holden 3.2 litre 6 cylinder Captiva, I use Nulon full synthetic and always have for many years - with the little Jazz since 2013, and the Captiva since purchase about five or six years ago. The Jazz has hit about 95K. kms and the Captiva 209K. kms - both engines are super quiet except for the little Jazz (1.3) when pushed uphills. Regards Styria

 

[Patrick_R]

All you mention Is spot on Styria.
Modern oil, modern lead free fuels, super hot, very lean & efficient combustion (no unburnt fuel or correctly called soot particulates exiting the combustion chamber) combined with modern engine design all render build up obsolete.
I’ve seen modern engines running on lead free fuel pulled down at 300,000k still look new inside the inlet & exhaust tracts and vale’s, oil galleries and sump.
Good fuels (95 and above) all have cleaning agents to keep fuel lines, injectors and combustion chambers even cleaner.

Older designed engines, running all these modern things will do better of course, but the older designs are just that old technology, colder burning, colder cooling systems etc etc.
These older cars are now not used as daily drivers as they once were, so the amount of fuel going through them is way less, and this means less maintenance as well.

Modern engines are monitored by the manufacturer not so much now by kilometres traveled, but by fuel burn.
Currently at my work, truck engines are serviced exactly by that, how much fuel it has burned, other service schedules are still done by kilometres traveled, such as greasing, and chassis maintenance.

All of this is monitored electronically as each vehicle talks to the cloud and I can even monitor just this by a simple phone app.
I also coach drivers using this app, to operate the vehicle more efficiently.

 

[Styria]

All you mention Is spot on Styria.
Modern oil, modern lead free fuels, super hot, very lean & efficient combustion (no unburnt fuel or correctly called soot particulates exiting the combustion chamber) combined with modern engine design all render build up obsolete.
I’ve seen modern engines running on lead free fuel pulled down at 300,000k still look new inside the inlet & exhaust tracts and vale’s, oil galleries and sump.
Good fuels (95 and above) all have cleaning agents to keep fuel lines, injectors and combustion chambers even cleaner.

Older designed engines, running all these modern things will do better of course, but the older designs are just that old technology, colder burning, colder cooling systems etc etc.
These older cars are now not used as daily drivers as they once were, so the amount of fuel going through them is way less, and this means less maintenance as well.

Modern engines are monitored by the manufacturer not so much now by kilometres traveled, but by fuel burn.
Currently at my work, truck engines are serviced exactly by that, how much fuel it has burned, other service schedules are still done by kilometres traveled, such as greasing, and chassis maintenance.

All of this is monitored electronically as each vehicle talks to the cloud and I can even monitor just this by a simple phone app.
I also coach drivers using this app, to operate the vehicle more efficiently.

Hi Patrick, fascinating information. The Honda Jazz is specified to use semi-synthetic oil (Honda supplied) and the service interval, from memory, is about 10K. or 15K. kilometers. We don't observe that mileage. The car is serviced on the button every six months with the full synthetic and a new genuine Honda Filter. We were advised that we were wasting money by going full synthetic because its service interval would exceed that of the semi syn., especially as the oil is changed with the car only doing about 5K. kms in six months. In my opinion, still very cheap Insurance cover by changing the oil on such a regular basis. The service, each six months, costs $99.00 plus the oil that I supply. Regards Styria

 

[Patrick_R]

I completely understand cheap insurance Styria.
Your cars give you the reliability and service due to your diligent work in keeping your oil fresh.
Question.
When the Jazz is driven, how far/long is it usually driven for?

If it does not get up to a full,operating temp, for a good period of time, your method is sound.
If it is driven for a good amount of time at full temp, with a full synthetic oil, yes over servicing is what’s happening.

If it makes you sleep better at night, well it’s all good.

With all that I have spoken about in my earlier post, OEM’s Are trying to get the servicing to once every 12 months and up to between 15-20,000 k’s, no grease points any more, and usually sealed for life wheel bearings etc.

The only thing people tend to neglect is coolant.
Please remember to keep the concentration checked.

Our trucks are currently getting up to 100,000k’s between oil changes using synthetic oil and double oil and fuel filters.
Keep the oil and fuel clean, and your 90% there.

 

[c107]

I suspect Styria's oil change regime is why he has received sterling service from his Captiva when its got a reputation for anything but.
It wouldn't surprise me if the engine/transmission is sensitive to sludge and the combination of long service intervals and then people going beyond them causes the problems that many have.

 

[Patrick_R]

Fully agree Bryce.