Continuation - grinding and de-coking !

[SELfor50]

Geeez.. that engine bay is looking sexy!!!

It's not just the re-freshed manifold and head etc.. but all the ancillary items like the bolts / pins / brackets etc. Lookin' really good.

Have you got any plans for an 'upgrade' of the fuel delivery system Styria??!!

 

[Styria]

Geeez.. that engine bay is looking sexy!!!

It's not just the re-freshed manifold and head etc.. but all the ancillary items like the bolts / pins / brackets etc. Lookin' really good.

Have you got any plans for an 'upgrade' of the fuel delivery system Styria??!!

Hi SELfor50, the short answer, presently, is no. That doesn't mean to say that the idea has been abandoned - just postponed. A friend of mine with a 6.9 has set to "cleaning out" (grinding) the inlet manifold, and has also opened up the butterfly housing in order to obtain a greater volume, and smoother flow of air. 6.9 engines are very "conservative" in their breathing capacity, and the exhaust manifold, just about impossible to modify, presents an additional restriction. In comparison with American 'muscle cars', the openings and exhaust tracts are puny. A tuned header system would work wonders but where are you going to fit them ?There may be some ideas around.

RonB, the engine in my Gleaming Beauty I have always taken as being of the high compression type. If the separate oil cooler is the guide in determining high or low compression, then it is a Euro engine. I have no history associated with "GB' other than it was exported to Kenya when new, and that it had originally been painted Taxi White. God only knows to what initial use she was put to - when I first bought her, I rang Kenya in the days when phone calls to that country were a 'mint', but I gave up in the end as it was nothing more than a frustrating exercise.

I have access to another three 6.9 engines, and will check those as far as flat piston crowns are concerned. I have reason tobelieve that at least one of them is a Euro engine. BTW, there is no compliance plate on "GB". Regards Styria

 

[koan]

There's a table in the m100 engine manual that cross references piston two digit numbers with compression ratio, there are 4 or 5 variations from 7.4:1 up to 8.8:1, and slight changes within some ratios like moving the recess to one side. From memory none are flat top.

Is anyone getting PM spam?

koan

 

[Lukas]

Re PM spam - yes. Fortunately, I like deleting things.

 

[s class]

Any progress styria - is the beast all back together?

 

[Styria]

Hi S-Class,

Beast ? I beg your pardon ! She is my lady, my 'Gleaming Beauty', but presently misbehaving herself badly by not wanting to start. From where I am sitting, lack of spark appears to be the problem.

I've run her on two occasions, the second time for at least ten to fifteen minutes, but after switching off the engine, and returning two hours later, nothing.

I have had a few little dramas with wiring etc. and I will elaborate further on this in due course. So far, so good. It runs nicely and quietly (when it is running !) and so far I can give my qualified approval tjhat the job has turned out alright. Will keep you posted. Regards Styria

 

[Styria]

Okay, I guess the time has come to submit a final report. There have been absolutely no further problems - after some 2000 miles, not kilometers. The amount of oil used has been but just the one litre of my favorite brew.

Oil Pressure, as referred to in the original thread, is still very, very acceptable, but I would like to do one more oil/filter change as soon as practicable.

Fuel consumption is probably no better than average, but have not done a proper test at this stage. Hopefully, will have details soon on that particular subject. Regards Styria

 

[Styria]

My God, where has time gone - little did I realize that it is just about twelve months since this work was carried out on Gleaming Beauty. Thus, time for an update.

Other than the 'disaster' with the physical damage sustained to the water pump, radiator, fan etc., Gleaming Beauty has run faultlessly. I did have two oil leaks from the rear of both rocker covers that developed slowly over a period of some weeks (I guess), but I have since rectified that. The car has not missed a beat otherwise, it uses very little oil, and the Platinum plugs remain as clean as a whistle even after some two months of driving. It is actually quite remarkable that the porcelain section of the plug remains white and there are hardly any carbon deposits on the electrode.

The engine oil had become a little discoloured, so I decided that an oil and filter change would be beneficial. Again, nothing untoward, but I followed the long procedure of flushing out the oil tank with kerosene and petrol, as well as the small sump just to clean out as much gunk as possible. I did this with an engine degreasing gun.

Again, as has happened previously, when removing the oil tank drain plug, the opening was gunked up to the extent that any oil in the bottom just simply did not drain out. It is simply gunk, and obviously I got rid of it as best as possible. An oil and filter change, with the associated cleaning, takes about one and a half to two hours, plus about three litres of kerosene/petrol (whichever you have on hand). Otherwise, absolutely no problems, and Gleaming Beauty has travelled about five thousand miles in that time. Regards Styria - BTW, still have to do proper fuel consumption test.

 

[TJ 450]

It's great to hear of the success of the work. I think it is fair to expect a few issues after such major work has been undertaken. I'm sure it is a wonderful experience to drive.

Was the gunk on the plug greyish in colour? This is what I found on mine every time it has been removed. I would suppose that gunk would collect there, much like it does in the suspension reservoir.

Was there any particular issue with the rocker covers causing the leak? I ask this, because I have a leak in the same place and that is with new gaskets.

Tim

 

[Styria]

Yes, the gunk is dark grey and quite solid - in fact, it has to be dug out with a screw driver. This is the second time (or third ?) that this drain hole has been blocked. From hereon in, I will drain the oil from the tank each and every time.

The leaking rocker covers - I've thought a bit about the reasons why they should leak as this is not the first time I've come across this problem. Whilst I can't be certain, I dismiss any notions of the rocker covers being warped. In my view, their construction is just simply too solid and sturdy. So why ? I tend to think that the domed nuts (nice to have) are the culprit. As you know, normal fitting is just a very thin steel washer, and the domed units foul against the top of the stud. What I do now is to fit an additional copper washer on top of the standard steel item, although at this stage I think there is a better way and that is to have a fiber washer, and a solid steel on top of that in order to apply a better sealing bite for the domed nuts. I also used some gasket maker on the gaskets and the rocker covers. I am hoping that provides the solution. Anyway, at the moment, so far so good. Regards Styria

 

[Styria]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN ! Just a further update on the way Gleaming Beauty is behaving. First of all, those oil leaks have been taken care of. I did remove the rocker covers and resealed the gaskets, but I still suspect that the fitting of spacing washers for the domed nuts really took care of the problem.

I have also taken the opportunity to do some sort of fuel consumption test - not entirely accurate, but judging from the fuel gauge, kilometers travelled and the amount of fuel replenishment. My driving consists of sparse traffic conditions in the morning, fairly busy in the afternoons with a fair sprinkling of traffic lights, some bumper to bumper traffic, but no major hold-ups as a rule - in other words, medium suburban traffic conditions. It would seem that eighty liters gives me a comfortable five hundred kilometers. One of these days, I'll do an open road trip, and I would daresay that I should achieve a comfortable 650 kilometers per tankful. In my view, that is more than acceptable from 6.9 liters of engine. Regards Styria

 

[SELfor50]

Hey Styria,

Can you confirm in a dot point what exactly you covered in your major work?

Head Service
Reco'd Intake Manifold?! (It looked shiny, so I assumed)
Injectors
Exhaust Manifolds

Did you modify any of the heads / manifold / cams while exchanging, or purely a 1:1 swap. And if it was just 1:1, did you notice in increase in power after the work, and how much?

Sorry for all the questions, you've probably already answered half of these.

Cam.

 

[John S]

16 L/100 K's for normal everyday driving (17.5 mpg) is - my opinion, an excellent result for any V8 W116!

My 450 averaged about 14 mpg no matter how I drove it in the city- or around 20 mpg. When I was trying for economy outside the metropolitan area 20 to 22 mpg was achievable, but I never got near 20 (or even 17.5) when driving in the suburbs.

 

[SEL_69L]

Interestingly, it is possible to examine the health of an enine at every oil change. The oil from diesel engines in railway locomotives is examined with every oil change. This examination is carried out with a mass spectrometer. A tiny droplet of oil is heated to a plasma about (6000° C) in a vacuum, so that the constituents are broken up into atomic ions, which are then accelerated through a magnetic field. The degree to which the path of the ions are deflected relative their path in a non magnetic field is a function of their mass, and is detected on a screen much like a colour spectrograph. Analysis of this spectrograph will reveal what constituents are in the oil droplet.

The purpose of all this is to reveal what trace elements are in the oil, like trace amounts of bearing metal , valve guide metal, combustion products which should not be present, etc. It is possible to obtain information on where and when specific parts of the engine are wearing.

It may be worthwhile to obtain a mass spectrometric report for the engines in our own cars. I don't know how much this type of oil analysis would cost, but it may be worth finding out.

 

[Styria]

Hey Styria,

Can you confirm in a dot point what exactly you covered in your major work?

Head Service
Reco'd Intake Manifold?! (It looked shiny, so I assumed)
Injectors
Exhaust Manifolds

Did you modify any of the heads / manifold / cams while exchanging, or purely a 1:1 swap. And if it was just 1:1, did you notice in increase in power after the work, and how much?

Sorry for all the questions, you've probably already answered half of these.

Cam.

Hi Cam, never be sorry for any questions you may ask - after all, helping and advising each other to the best of our knowledge and/or ability is what we are all about.
I am obviously aware of the fact that you haveacquired the steel sprung 6.9, and I hope it will turn out to be a good and satisfying car for you to own. I am also aware of some of the tuning and power improvements you are hoping to attain with your 6.9, and I was in fact going to reply to you in the other thread that related to "why you own a 6.9". More of that later, perhaps in the appropriate thread (that I have just referred to).

Other than the fitting of new exhaust valve guides, and new injectors, I largely left Gleaming Beauty's engine alone. I had on hand two engine shop serviced heads, and they had done just on about 220k.s kilometers. So, relatively low mileage. The rest of the engine is probably close to the 380K.'s kilometers mark.

The engine burns very little oil, if any, but I have noticed that it does use some oil - I estimate about one to one and a half liters to every 5000 kilometers. To me, that's very acceptable and whilst I have not done any fast open road or highway cruising, I have seen no evidence of oil smoke under any condition - mind you, and I do stress this, I am easy on an engine, I accelerate gently but firmly if the need arises, but overall I am easy on a car - like great Grandfather

All of the other work, Cameron, , was just simply careful and caring re-assembly and, of course, Mercules' help was invaluable. In fact, he did most of the hard, difficult work that required a competent mechanic. In the case of the Astral Silver 6.9 that is now owned by ChrisP., I did all of the work other than having the hydraulic valve clearances set up on 'dummy heads' by a very clever 6.9 owner. Cleanliness was of the utmost importance, and I had a number of components bead blasted and painted with the appropriate paint. Regards Styria

 

[SELfor50]

Thanks mate, good to know about the oil consumption.
I've currently got no leakage at all, but it is dumping some smoke on over-run etc.
But to be honest, I don't know how much of that is un-burnt fuel either.. as it's running extremely rich.

With what i'm embarking on, my aim is to do it right the first time, so much like yourself have everything clean and tidy etc.. so while i'm there I'd like to do as much as possible.

when you say 'uses' oil, is that from minor leakage from certain seals, or just purely through blow by here and there?

On the parts side of things;
Did you purchase original head-gaskets? or did you have some custom made / copied or buy aftermarket ones? I've been told of all 3 options, but i'd imagine you'd have a few contacts for those?

Also, are you aware of anyone who would be able to re-produce the valve springs but make them firmer?

 

[SEL_69L]

I think that it would be possible to manufacture valve springs to a specification. I am not an engine designer, but would it may be possible to put thick shims -er- washers in the valve stems, or would this upset the valve train balance, since they would be part of the moving mass of the valve train? I have someone in mind who I could ask and is familiar with the building of performance engines. Obviously, stiffer valve springs means valve bounce would happen at higher revs, but how fast would you want to rev a 6.9 engine?

 

[John S]

If you used a washer on the bottom of the spring it does not ad to the moving mass, if you used a washer on top of the spring it would add to the moving mass. In either application you reduce the free space available and add to the compressed length - and that can be very VERY dangerous.

 

[Styria]

Hi SELfour50 - I guess I should call you by your proper name by now, but I am following Internet practice by utilizing the avatar name, rightly or wrongly. Anyway, Cam, a bit of stuff I know about 6.9s.

It is my firm opinion that you can do very little by way of tuning or hotting up the M100 engine. The engine is designed to be a 'Torquer', and it fulfills that task admirably. It is a cruiosing engine, but it still has a definite power band that starts at about 2500 rpm and probably continues on up to about the 4000 mark.

The engine has two problems when it comes to getting extra horses - Air IN and Air OUT. The throttle body is the same size as what you will find on the M117 450 engine or, for that matter, the same capacity as the 3.8 or 3.6 litre V6 Commodore engine. Thus, intake of air is severely restricted. Just try and compare that with some of the Yankee engines - in comparison, their intake capacity is huge. You can slightly increase its volume by machining, but it is minute. You then also have the further problem of the intake manifold being somewhat restrictive and a bit of porting and polishing is possible, but again you will be limited as to how much.

Next problem - exhaust manifolds. Their capacity is severely restricted as far as dispensing of exhaust gases are concerned, and there is almost no scope for increasing the exhaust flow. Extractors may help a little, but even with those I would have some reservations. Again, if you have a look at the Yankee product, there is simply no comparison - everything is huge and free flowing.

So, what can you do to make it more competitive ? Firstly, change the diff ratio to one from a 450. That WILL make a fair bit of difference. You could consider a 280 unit as well, but I suspect that the engine will rip it to pieces in next to no time. Secondly, weight saving - don't know how much and where you could start a weight reduction programme, but weight is a penalty for the 116 body. Just imagine if you could get it down to 1500 kilos - it would become a 'blaster'.

Thirdly, engine management - a modern fuel injection system would probably work wonders. Cam in Sydney (Mercules) was going to look into that for me, but those plans have been shelved for the time being. Possibly one could approach him again - he is very smart and cluey, and it would probably pay to talk to him. I am hoping he will be at our concours/barbecue - he tells me, by the way, that he's got that Turbo Nissan pumping out 399 horses - can't understand why he cannot find one more ! I well remember our trip back from Bowral - he hurtled past Michel and myself doing a 100 (kilometers) and he reckoned he had an extra gear to go. Scary but impressive. Anyway, I mustn't digress.

I do know that heads can need new exhaust valve guides at about 220k. kilometers. With ChrisP.'s 6.9, the Engineering Shop advised that the heads should have both Inlets and Exhausts replaced. I went with their advice as I was not sure of the mileage, but also it was prudent to do the job seeing that it takes a fair amount of work to R & R the heads. On Gleaming Beauty, oil consumption can probably be put down to the fact that the rings are original on 380k. engine. Oh, by the way, I used original MB head gaskets - the only way to go. Reproduction items made locally are too thick and will reduce the compression ratio.

I hope some of this information helps. Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. Regards Styria

 

[SELfor50]

Thanks for your wise words Michael, always appreciated.

In regards to gaining extra performance from the m100, I've been advised from people who've done it previously that with compression increased to 13:1, CAMS, EFI and extractors, the maximum they reached was 430 odd HP at the wheels. Now this is nothing to sneeze at, but the same person advised that a turbo or SC would be the better way to go.. much more driveable also. The heads just won't flow more than 400 odd HP naturally aspirated.

Now i'm not looking to win HP heroes at the nats, but I am looking at doing it properly.

Anyway short of it is, with the heads freshened, good cams and a solid EFI setup (from someone who's done it before), then after a SC or turbo is added.. should work out quite nicely. Will post plenty pics of the process.

Cam.