Ceramic paint treatment?

[BenzBoy]

What is the collective wisdom about ceramic paint treatment as opposed to traditional waxes? I am uncertain about this area so perhaps someone here can shed some more light on the subject please?
Regards,
Brian

 

[Patrick_R]

Brian,
Please check with Mercedes Benz as to what has actually been done to your paint work at the factory, (if any)

The gold S430 I had, had factory paint protection and it was amazing.
I’d hate to do anything to that factory finish that may effect its longevity.

 

[Styria]

There is a lot of advertising on the net these days, but I have had no practical experience. Well, no experience at all, full stop. However, I did purchase two bottles of FORTIFY Quick Coat, and advertised as SHINE ARMOR. Made in America, the rest is guesswork. It claims to be a waterless wash, shine & protect. Regards Styria

 

[c107]

What is the collective wisdom about ceramic paint treatment as opposed to traditional waxes? I am uncertain about this area so perhaps someone here can shed some more light on the subject please?
Regards,
Brian

I would also be interested in this as ceramic coating is pushed heavily but I don't really understand how effective it is. Some people pay big money for it to be professionally applied too.

 

[BenzBoy]

Brian,
Please check with Mercedes Benz as to what has actually been done to your paint work at the factory, (if any)

The gold S430 I had, had factory paint protection and it was amazing.
I’d hate to do anything to that factory finish that may effect its longevity.

The E350 Coupe came with ceramic coating from the factory and the paint feels like glass - very different from anything I have felt before but that is the extent of my knowledge on the matter, hence my question here. A chemist did explain the differnce to me but my mind glazed over when he talked of the different molecular structures between ceramic and wax.
Regards,
Brian

 

[Patrick_R]

Ohhhhhh boy.
That sounds like when I start training people ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Then you should do nothing to the E350 Brian.
It will be good for many years.
Any information on the Estate?

 

[BenzBoy]

The Estate is a fine and proper motor vehicle with no issues to report. We drove down to Ulladulla and back last weekend and still have 900 kms left in the tank. It has a coating of Swissvax.
The Esate is probably of no interest to members here who are more taken by go faster bits so I have not said much about it.
Regards,
Brian

 

[Patrick_R]

Of course it is of interest Brian.

It’s your car, and that is what makes it interesting.

That is amazing economy considering it’s still very low k.

 

[260ebenz]

There is a lot of advertising on the net these days, but I have had no practical experience. Well, no experience at all, full stop. However, I did purchase two bottles of FORTIFY Quick Coat, and advertised as SHINE ARMOR. Made in America, the rest is guesswork. It claims to be a waterless wash, shine & protect. Regards Styria

Hi Styria I was actually very kindly given by another Mercedes Club Member a bottle of the Shine Armor Fortify Quick Coat and it is an excellent product to use on both cars here at home!

 

[braminator123]

I have recently had my genuine Mercedes 14" alloy wheels refurbished (yes all 5 including the spare) together with genuine metal centres and a ceramic coating was applied over the top.

I have cleaned the wheels once so far and with all the intricate details of the wheels, brake dust has just slid off making cleaning a joy!

Note I haven't got on my back under the car to clean the inside of each rim. Does anyone clean the inside of each rim too?

 

[Patrick_R]

Next time you replace pads, go for an Australian made Bendix pad.
These are slightly harder, longer lasting and most importantly create substantially less dust.
These can come in a range of types, sports or heavy duty being the hardest, however the harder the pad, the less effective they are when cold.
If you are a demon braker, maybe some harder pads that produce less dust will be the go.

Of course this all depends on your driving style, and if someone else drives the car that isn’t a hard braker.

The soft European pads, are soft because they have maximum bite even when cold, but produce substantially more dust.

If you remove each rim, and ceramic coat the inside as well, combined with low dust pads, the rims will basically hose clean.

 

[Patrick_R]

Gents.
My daughter is having her 2018 Obsidian Black Hyundai ceramic coated soon by a local mobile detailer.
These are two test panels he has done.
My daughter has run her car through auto car washes on a few occasions thus the swirl marks.
This is at night under my very high intensity LED light.
This isn’t this dramatic during the day, but you can certainly see the hard work the detailer has done.
Amazing result.
He is even doing a full internal shampoo and detail, plus the deep cut, buff then ceramic coating all for $650.
He does this in my driveway.

He will even do washes on the car whenever she needs it with the appropriate cleaning products, at my place or hers for $25.
She just takes my car to work of a morning, and when she comes back it’s all finished.

A good way to maintain the finish properly.

 

[braminator123]

Low dust pads seem the way to go.

I have never spoken to a mechanic who advocates for such pads, presumably as they last too long?

Having just had the wheels restored, I almost cringe before braking and use light braking where possible to avoid brake dust and dirtying the rims!

 

[Patrick_R]

Yes,
You are correct.
Soft pads and soft rotors, make for more parts sales.

Makes a whole lot of sense that trucks use a magnetic retarder.
The trucks I work with can have either up to 4 levels of engine braking, and/or some form of magnetic retarder.
I don’t know why we don’t have these in cars.

I have dealt with customers that have over one million kilometres on their trucks and trailers, because they use these auxiliary brakes to their full potential.

Using these auxiliary brakes, you pretty much are hauled down to a walking pace, then all you need the brake pedal for is to basically come to a stop from a walking pace.

This customer runs a B Double fleet so we are talking about 18 sets of brakes, not 4 as per a car.

We have had various types of auxiliary brakes on trucks since the 50’s.
They can be a basic butterfly or wedge restricting the exhaust from exiting the combustion chamber, to camshaft manipulation resulting in the same thing as the engine being turned into an exhaust compressor to restrict piston travel.

The magnetic retarder is fitted in the driveline, and is mainly extreme duty auxiliary brakes.

Of course we now can have a level of electric/magnetic braking to a point in the various forms of electric cars now being sold, however the predominant use of these motors is to generate a current for battery re charging, not vehicle braking when these motors are in the “over run” mode, not the “driven” mode.

Here is a typical, heavy duty retarder we use in trucks.

 

[BenzBoy]

We live under a flightpath for fruit bats and having seen the fruit bat poo slide off the caramic coating of the E350 has convinced me it does work. The E Estate will get the same treatment soon.
Regards,
Brian

 

[Patrick_R]

Nice work Brian.
It’s great to get hold of a good product.

 

[c107]

Interesting your experiences with low dust pads.

My 560SEL presumably has such pads. It makes very little dust. I don't like the brake feel though, if I compare to the 560SEC, which presumably has the regular mercedes OEM pads. The 560SEC gives me much more confidence. I don't know for sure what brand is in either car, but the difference is enough that I plan to put the normal pads in the SEL when it needs new ones.

 

[braminator123]

It appears that those hard, low dust pads at cooler temperatures requiring harder brake stomping have similar characteristics to ceramic brake pads?

 

[braminator123]

Yes,
You are correct.
Soft pads and soft rotors, make for more parts sales.

Makes a whole lot of sense that trucks use a magnetic retarder.
The trucks I work with can have either up to 4 levels of engine braking, and/or some form of magnetic retarder.
I don’t know why we don’t have these in cars.

I have dealt with customers that have over one million kilometres on their trucks and trailers, because they use these auxiliary brakes to their full potential.

Using these auxiliary brakes, you pretty much are hauled down to a walking pace, then all you need the brake pedal for is to basically come to a stop from a walking pace.

This customer runs a B Double fleet so we are talking about 18 sets of brakes, not 4 as per a car.

We have had various types of auxiliary brakes on trucks since the 50’s.
They can be a basic butterfly or wedge restricting the exhaust from exiting the combustion chamber, to camshaft manipulation resulting in the same thing as the engine being turned into an exhaust compressor to restrict piston travel.

The magnetic retarder is fitted in the driveline, and is mainly extreme duty auxiliary brakes.

Of course we now can have a level of electric/magnetic braking to a point in the various forms of electric cars now being sold, however the predominant use of these motors is to generate a current for battery re charging, not vehicle braking when these motors are in the “over run” mode, not the “driven” mode.

Here is a typical, heavy duty retarder we use in trucks.
View attachment 22742View attachment 22743

That's rather interesting with respect to magnetic retardation and why cars have not had that technology implemented.

In electric motors, its effectively a form of F1 KERS? Could it be split between this and braking or the act of splitting would result in neither purpose being served properly and effectively?

 

[c107]

It appears that those hard, low dust pads at cooler temperatures requiring harder brake stomping have similar characteristics to ceramic brake pads?

Its probably also worth comparing brands, as I doubt they are all created equal.
I will be interested to see what brand is on the SEL once I remove the pads.