The TeamW116 Team (#1 & #2 @ Sandown)

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B13

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Hi Des,

The weight reduction on whitey is only about 50% done. Still fitted on Sunday was:

stock door cards
stock drivers seat
roof lining
sound proofing
electric window motors

Cam and I both compare notes regularly but both have different ideas on how to get the best out of the cars, and how we want to build the cars...

Cam prefers stiffer suspension, I prefer a bit softer (this is not to be confused with ride height)
Cam prefers to remove the bumpers, I prefer to keep them (just personal preference)
Cam prefers to look toward forced induction to gain power, I prefer to look at what can be done with cam profiles and compression ratios (and successful non-MB race cars have been built using both theories)
We both would prefer LSDs, but in their absence I would prefer a locked diff of 3.46 whereas Cam looks toward a 6.9 LSD with low ratio, which with sufficient HP would be as good as the 3.46 locker with less HP

When the Team makes interesting discoveries we report them to each other (there's 3 of us now) and its up to each other to decide whether its suitable for each other or not. I, for example, came up with a radical cold air intake system which wouldn't work on my car, but would be right at home on Cam's.

The result, no doubt, will be three fast-but-radically-different race cars, all TeamW116 cars, all individual expressions of their owners as to what constitutes a Mercedes-Benz race car.

I.
 

oscar

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The result, no doubt, will be three fast-but-radically-different race cars,

Well, two fast cars and the third with a Learner plate following:D

As far as weight loss is concerned, I forgot povo has a towbar and it's the same type I removed from turd 280 which weighed about 20kg. Fuel tank's 18kg, that'll go eventually. I want to weigh everything I take off minus the stuff I put in and see how much weight can be shed. Of course, povo's driver can loose 20kg:rolleyes: plus like you said Des, just like GrantV I'm gonna selectively use a hole saw and grinder in a number of places but probably like Ian, I want to have the bumpers on, but I might take all the cast iron supports out to lighten them and find another way to attach them. Amazingly, Cam's car didn't seem as naked without the bumpers like I thought it would. It looked really good and still like a w116. I thought bumpers would be necessary to keep it real but Cam's paint work proved otherwise.

Steelies to alloys, A/C out, rad fan was no loss or gain with the electric one which weighed the same but I have to check it properly. The front seats are so darn heavy and removing the rears will help too. Would love to investigate some perspex for windows. Will also remove the dash and gut the internals there too. AMG spoiler and rear wing are also on the cards because they look cool :cool:. Add go fast stripes and I'll be untouchable:D

Little steps at a time but there's so much potential for this 280 engine. If we all lost the same weight I can't really see me outdoing a 450 unless I was in a 107, 114 or 280ce undergoing a similar transformation. But considering this engine is a low compression one with basic non transistorized coil ignition there's a few mods possible down the track.

With the existence of AMG M110's in the past it's a shame the camshafts aren't readily available but I'm thinking skimmed block and investigate high comp pistons. Damn I'm day dreaming again:) If a locked diff is doable, I'll be doing that too after trying a few rounds without one. Despite the less powerful motor, the gearing lets one wheel rip surprisingly easily. It'll drive me nuts.
 
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B13

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Hey Oscar I know there was a lot to take in at Sandown but did you get to look in the engine bays of 6-cyl cars?

Popular amoungst those Toranas is the triple weber or triple SU setup... maybe some study as to which 110 engine block has the highest compression pistons would be a good starting point...

A locker diff tends to be a bit of a pig to drive on the road but i reckon are more effective than an LSD on a race track...

Ian.
 
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B13

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Looks to me like a .987 or .988 variant appear to have the most power (185HP), torque (240nM) and best CR (9.0:1), but also seem to be the easiest to source since any W126 280SE or SEL has the required engine.

Buy one with low milage, strip out the K-jet and install a Holley or weber setup, transistor ignition etc.

Ian.
 

oscar

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did you get to look in the engine bays of 6-cyl cars?


Hardly a peak. I did notice one of the tripple webber setups but I never took the opportunity to go ask people about what they had or soak it all up. Kind of kicking myself I didn't go for more of a wander too. Even just to ask the VK or VL owners what the locked diffs were like. I seriously thought locked diffs would lead to diffs winding up and snapping half shafts. Apparently not. A small local group that just does drags down in Vic driving XD Falcons and the like have locked their diffs but it's all straight line stuff and they trailer to events.

About the higher CR, that wiki page has basically similar info to the m110 manual.......however, checking closely, the 110.988/989/990 aren't included in my book:( Going through that and my book, it appears that the 136kw engine is:
110.981/982/983/987 plus 988/989/990
For w116's chassis 116.024 and 116.025 280se/l's and for w126's 126.022 and 126.023.

Some other engines are only down by 5kw and for US market and I wouldn't be surprised if it was an emission addon affecting power rather than engine internals. Regardless, there's a few references to check and foremost will be checking the k-jet engine in turd 280. The only prob with that engine AFAIK is that it was smokey.

But about skimming. High CR pistons or not, I'll tell ya's a yarn. The guy I bought the yellow 280 off was a young mech who had a w108 280 also. Now I can't remember off hand what pushrod type of engine was in there but he threw all these details at me of what he did. The car was a mess and he was just interested in tweaking the motor whereby it was skimmed and said it had a 10.5:1 CR. It was a bit hard starting in the middle of winter last year in the Vic alps too mind you, but when it started it spat like a dragster when it idled and when revved it sung. Very responsive and sounded fantastic. Don't know what carb he had on. I know nothing about those motors but without overdoing it, it makes me wonder what's possible in relation to increasing CR and by how much, what's the benefit etc.

If you're thinking on the same lines as me, I should just go flog povo, have fun, plus earn my racing stripes whilst rebuilding turd's m110 in the background, aiming towards a powerful serious replacement benzgine. Naturally aspirated too. Easily blown budget before blown povo.
 

oscar

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Thanks for those links Des. :cool: rosspistons prices are approx $100 per piston. Not sure if they'd have to have a minimum run but that's not too bad a price to get exactly the spec I'm after (whatever that maybe in the future). I'll bookmark them.
 

SELfor50

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Well said Ian!! The best part about this team is we're all trying different things at once which assist in the development. Oscar's stepping into a slightly different world engine wise, but as stated - maybe for the better.. the mod's may work out easier in the end.

As for the custom cold air intake - it's coming.... hopefully by november. :)

All this talk of mod's is making me edgy... can't wait to get out there again.
 

WiSeGuYY

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hey guys , just watched OSCAR documented a race in 08 and the cars 116 looks sponsored with topklasse site ( one way or another) i saw the labels and i'm proud of those teams , hope b13 and OSCAR show us more of this races -absolutly amazing.

REGARDS

TAREK
 

Styria

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hey guys , just watched OSCAR documented a race in 08 and the cars 116 looks sponsored with topklasse site ( one way or another) i saw the labels and i'm proud of those teams , hope b13 and OSCAR show us more of this races -absolutly amazing.

REGARDS

TAREK

Hi Tarek, Oscar's racing efforts seem pretty well finished for the time being. I can still keep in contact with him, but he has basically stopped posting. Well, not basically, he has stopped. Pity, as he had always been so enthusiastic. B13 is a regular visitor still, but little is known now of his racing efforts. Perhaps he will bring us up to date if, and when, he reads this post. Regards Styria
 

Oversize

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It's a real shame that it seems like these guys have stopped racing. I would've loved to have seen them in action and I'm sure I could've learnt a lot from their experiences. :confused:

I went to the Calder street drags over the weekend and thought I'd love to have just one of my cars out there.... One day it'll happen!!! :D
 

WiSeGuYY

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Hey GODFATHER & MARK

Strange that OSCAR not posting as before but i'm sure i saw his post here and other forum we both members , i can't orget his avatar pic which is RR or bentley or PONTON MERCEDES.
 

Tony66_au

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brave brave blokes both Oscar and B13, I would think (Based on the little motorsport experience I've had) that you'd need some fairly deep pockets, a fair whack of gear and workshop space not to mention a huge set of balls to race an S Class anywhere near the limits as Id see it more of a 24 hour endurance car where strategy and longevity were key.

The sheer weight and mass of the "S" would be very hard on brakes and front tyres even stripped of weight and Oscar running an Auto without it being "Manualised" would place him at a fair disadvantage against the rest of the field, having seen footage of a Manual chev powered 107 in race conditions id suggest that a manual box would be a definite advantage.

That said it still looked like a lot of fun.

Tony
 

motec 6.9

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hi guys they are still active on the other web site the other car in fact belongs to SELfor50 or Cam and he is still around hoping to have car running in time for Christmas i spoke to him yesterday:D
 

Michel

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Nothing like a 6.9 going flat out at the track.

Took the Red Terror for a day at the defunct Oran Park raceway

This is a youtube video posted by Oscar.

It is filmed from the inside of Oscar's racer and you get a glimpse of the Red Terror overtaking everything in sight :p

http://youtu.be/9PXiCRsdKu4
 

Michel

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Some of the pictures on the day, courtesy of the Godffather

topklasseatOranPark032.jpg

topklasseatOranPark033.jpg

topklasseatOranPark035.jpg
BB

topklasseatOranPark036.jpg
Michel (left) wtih abl567 (centre)

topklasseatOranPark037.jpg
SEL_69L (left) with Oscar (in blue)
 

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