great clip....
that car looks stunning
and the water so fresh..
that car looks stunning
and the water so fresh..
Tatra update
- Thread starter CraigS
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #22
More Tatra news. I am chasing a 1939 Tatra T97 that has just come up for sale in Czechoslovakia. Photos are here:
http://tatra97-1939.rajce.idnes.cz/Inzerce/#album
While I firmly acknowledge that this is not a particularly attractive car, it is a rare example, with only 510 produced between 1938/39, and according to some well known experts that I have shown these photos to, one of the best and most original they have seen. It is also a piece of automotive history. Unfortunately, it is also relatively expensive, at a little more than $50,000 as you see it, so I might have several cars for sale in the not too distant future if the seller decides in my favour. He wants it to go to an enthusiast, not someone interested in making a fast buck, to use his expression.
http://tatra97-1939.rajce.idnes.cz/Inzerce/#album
While I firmly acknowledge that this is not a particularly attractive car, it is a rare example, with only 510 produced between 1938/39, and according to some well known experts that I have shown these photos to, one of the best and most original they have seen. It is also a piece of automotive history. Unfortunately, it is also relatively expensive, at a little more than $50,000 as you see it, so I might have several cars for sale in the not too distant future if the seller decides in my favour. He wants it to go to an enthusiast, not someone interested in making a fast buck, to use his expression.
s class
New Member
I think that is a very sexy car. Wonderfully complete and original. I'm just a little surprised at how expensive it is, but I guess you've researched the market.
apart from surface corrosion, it seems to be free of body damage, which must be a huge attraction. I assume the engine is not presently running ?
good luck!
apart from surface corrosion, it seems to be free of body damage, which must be a huge attraction. I assume the engine is not presently running ?
good luck!
- Thread Starter
- #24
It is possibly a bit high in price - maybe the real value is US$25 - $30,000, but as mentioned, it is one of the most original around and probably worth the premium for that reason. The engine and gearbox are apparently fine, which is very much a positive if correct.
The value of such a car is in the limited production (and remaining number), it's designer, Hans Ledwinka and his son, and the influence that it had on the design of the VW beetle.
The value of such a car is in the limited production (and remaining number), it's designer, Hans Ledwinka and his son, and the influence that it had on the design of the VW beetle.
Hi CraigS, certainly a rare find, and it leaves you with plenty to go on with - should you decide to buy it.
How did you discover it ? Word of mouth, I guess, or possibly through your contacts as a result of involvement with youe present one ?
I must admit that it'd be too much for me at this stage of my life - but, nevertheless, most intriguing - to say the least.
Changing the subject completely, how are you getting on with your 6.9's. One does see the odd snippet here and there, but nothing of any real substance. When you were last in Oz-land, did you get much work done on any of them, or did you concentrate on the Tatra ? Regards Styria
How did you discover it ? Word of mouth, I guess, or possibly through your contacts as a result of involvement with youe present one ?
I must admit that it'd be too much for me at this stage of my life - but, nevertheless, most intriguing - to say the least.
Changing the subject completely, how are you getting on with your 6.9's. One does see the odd snippet here and there, but nothing of any real substance. When you were last in Oz-land, did you get much work done on any of them, or did you concentrate on the Tatra ? Regards Styria
- Thread Starter
- #26
I was back there in Aug/Sept, but spent most of my time on the Tatra. I am still driving the dark blue one when I am in Brisbane, and have now put the Inca Red one on club permit in Melbourne, so I will be driving that one next time I am in Melbourne. I only managed to get this done the last day I was in Melbourne as you need to get a roadworthy first so a bit of messing around time wise. No problems with the roadworthy though.
Next time I am in Brisbane - sometime before March hopefully, I plan on changing the leather interior in #6230 for a blue velour one. The leather is tired and rather than go down the route of refurbishing it, I will change it to this near mint velour one I bought recently. I picked up the complete interior - seats, carpets, door panels, console, uncracked blue dash, parcel shelf, and a set of sheepskin covers that had been on the car since new, and helped to protect the velour, for $880. The blue dash will go into the white one eventually. From the same seller, I also bought a pair of near new front and rear level control valves and a complete left hand tail light unit for a further $220, and he threw in a 6.9 washer bottle (not perfect though).
The Tatra is certainly an interesting find. I found it by trawling through some former eastern block websites that have been quite useful for Tatra parts, and don't really seem to be very well known outside this region. It has not been advertised elsewhere that I can find and certainly not on any mainstream sites. I am still waiting to hear back from the seller, but it has only been a day or so since I contacted him. He is looking for offers around his sale price, but seems more interested in ensuring it goes to someone that will restore it. I have not made an offer on it as yet, but may take a trip to Prague next week or the week after to have a look. If I did buy it, and it is a big if at this stage as I really would need to sell a few cars, 6.9's included, to afford it - it is only a hobby after all ! Frankly, the 6.9's are replaceable, the Tatra is unlikely to come up again. If I did buy it, and depending on the body condition with regard to rust, I would likely retain the exterior look as it is and recondition the mechanicals. Even though the paint is dull, it appears to be the original paint, and it would be a shame to replace it with something nice and shiny.
Next time I am in Brisbane - sometime before March hopefully, I plan on changing the leather interior in #6230 for a blue velour one. The leather is tired and rather than go down the route of refurbishing it, I will change it to this near mint velour one I bought recently. I picked up the complete interior - seats, carpets, door panels, console, uncracked blue dash, parcel shelf, and a set of sheepskin covers that had been on the car since new, and helped to protect the velour, for $880. The blue dash will go into the white one eventually. From the same seller, I also bought a pair of near new front and rear level control valves and a complete left hand tail light unit for a further $220, and he threw in a 6.9 washer bottle (not perfect though).
The Tatra is certainly an interesting find. I found it by trawling through some former eastern block websites that have been quite useful for Tatra parts, and don't really seem to be very well known outside this region. It has not been advertised elsewhere that I can find and certainly not on any mainstream sites. I am still waiting to hear back from the seller, but it has only been a day or so since I contacted him. He is looking for offers around his sale price, but seems more interested in ensuring it goes to someone that will restore it. I have not made an offer on it as yet, but may take a trip to Prague next week or the week after to have a look. If I did buy it, and it is a big if at this stage as I really would need to sell a few cars, 6.9's included, to afford it - it is only a hobby after all ! Frankly, the 6.9's are replaceable, the Tatra is unlikely to come up again. If I did buy it, and depending on the body condition with regard to rust, I would likely retain the exterior look as it is and recondition the mechanicals. Even though the paint is dull, it appears to be the original paint, and it would be a shame to replace it with something nice and shiny.
Amazing find....
So close to a VW Beetle shape....
Good luck Craig with the purchase..
So close to a VW Beetle shape....
Good luck Craig with the purchase..
BenzBoy
Grand Master
I really like that Tatra Craig. My only question is; does it have investment potential? I ask that because clearly it is not a cheap car and it not all that well known. Maybe that in itself gives it potential?
Apart from that issue, I find it an enormously interesting vehicle - just as I would love to try some of the later Tatra series like the T613 Long model.
Regards,
BenzBoy
Apart from that issue, I find it an enormously interesting vehicle - just as I would love to try some of the later Tatra series like the T613 Long model.
Regards,
BenzBoy
- Thread Starter
- #29
It's a good question, but not so easy to answer. I can only go on other examples of the marque that are offered - principally the T87 and T77/77a. A 77a for sale in Canada, unrestored, is being offered for US$175,000. A T87 for sale in Russia is offered for US$2,000,000 but I think that has an additional zero by mistake - at least I hope it is a mistake ! I really don't know, but I would guess that a restored example of this smaller model T97 would be around the US$125,000 mark on a good day - perhaps $100,000 on a bad day. Of course, it would take that additional $50,000 to restore it to pristine condition, but that would not be my intention as mentioned. The T87 is Brisbane that was restored by Sleeping Beauties probably saw no change out of $100,000 for the restoration, but that is doing it on a commercial basis and not how I would do it.
The only problem with the 613 is that they only built 7 of them in RHD form and only 3 remain apparently. It is no easy job to convert them to RHD, which they must be as they are not old enough to qualify to remain as a LHD vehicle, as there is a guy in Adelaide with one and he has not yet been able to convert it. I think there is also one in Melbourne.
The only problem with the 613 is that they only built 7 of them in RHD form and only 3 remain apparently. It is no easy job to convert them to RHD, which they must be as they are not old enough to qualify to remain as a LHD vehicle, as there is a guy in Adelaide with one and he has not yet been able to convert it. I think there is also one in Melbourne.
BenzBoy
Grand Master
well, I wish you luck. I suspect you will end up with it as there is something indefinable about it - some kind of unique appeal - and it not one of the herd!!
Regards,
BenzBoy
Regards,
BenzBoy
G
GreaseMonkey
Guest
Tatra will have their day.
The unique design, areodynamic bodies and quality engineering will one day make them recognised in the Bugatti league, and I don't say that lightly.
A brave man now who does the right thing in restoring a rare early one, will be rewarded later.
The 603 started to become the next trendy design icon in London a few years back, replacing the Citroen DS as the ultimate fashion statement, but the Czechs soon got on to what they had, and they are no longer affordable.
The earlier, truly revolutionary cars can only be rarer.
Go for it CraigS, BenzBoy is committed to his Phantom and I am tied up with the Crayford (which will certainly end up costing me a lot more than I will ever get back) but these rarities all should be saved by whatever means.
Chris M.
The unique design, areodynamic bodies and quality engineering will one day make them recognised in the Bugatti league, and I don't say that lightly.
A brave man now who does the right thing in restoring a rare early one, will be rewarded later.
The 603 started to become the next trendy design icon in London a few years back, replacing the Citroen DS as the ultimate fashion statement, but the Czechs soon got on to what they had, and they are no longer affordable.
The earlier, truly revolutionary cars can only be rarer.
Go for it CraigS, BenzBoy is committed to his Phantom and I am tied up with the Crayford (which will certainly end up costing me a lot more than I will ever get back) but these rarities all should be saved by whatever means.
Chris M.
- Thread Starter
- #32
No real news on the T97 at this stage, however I did receive the following history from the seller.
"this Tatra 97 was bought by my geat-great-uncle in 1939. He didn´t drive this car a long time before he died. He entail his house to my grandfather. My grandfather unexpectedly find this car in garage, under a lot of paper boxes. It was a big surprise for him. My gradfather was not use tatra for driving, because he afraid of national security agents (StB) and comunistic officers. He was a political prisoner. After velvet revolution he was to old to drive car safetly. My Grandmother entail it to my father. But we don´t have to much time and energy to restore Tatra97 as well, and keep it in good condition. It is the reason for we would like to sell this car to some person, who can restore and care about it as well as he can".
Interesting story. Bearing this in mind, and on the assumption that the odometer was working all the time that it was on the road, it may be that the mileage shown is original - 18,500 km. If correct, it would certainly be one of the lowest mileage examples anywhere.
"this Tatra 97 was bought by my geat-great-uncle in 1939. He didn´t drive this car a long time before he died. He entail his house to my grandfather. My grandfather unexpectedly find this car in garage, under a lot of paper boxes. It was a big surprise for him. My gradfather was not use tatra for driving, because he afraid of national security agents (StB) and comunistic officers. He was a political prisoner. After velvet revolution he was to old to drive car safetly. My Grandmother entail it to my father. But we don´t have to much time and energy to restore Tatra97 as well, and keep it in good condition. It is the reason for we would like to sell this car to some person, who can restore and care about it as well as he can".
Interesting story. Bearing this in mind, and on the assumption that the odometer was working all the time that it was on the road, it may be that the mileage shown is original - 18,500 km. If correct, it would certainly be one of the lowest mileage examples anywhere.
- Thread Starter
- #33
They are still affordable if you know where to look. Having said that, they are increasing in value, as are the parts prices. You always know when something is becoming more collectable - the parts start to be reproduced, which is occuring now.
I paid EUR 3300 for mine in 2004, plus freight/duties etc. so I guess it owed me around A$9,000. I have probably spent another $1500 - $2000 on it at this stage, but I really haven't kept track.The major expense has been the front suspension - and only because I had to have a mould made to reproduce the top mount on the McPherson strut type design. Value now ? I would guess somewhere between $15 - $20,000 to the right buyer.
BenzBoy
Grand Master
You could tempt me ....
Trouble is, I spoke to my accountant last night and he informed me that 2009 will be a frugal year. I told him I was already frugal and had bought only one R-R in 2008. He told me it would have to be an 'austere' year....and he's a car man himself. I told him I already was austere and he told me to go and practise harder. Maybe Tatras will decrease in price? My research says otherwise.
Regards,
BenzBoy
Trouble is, I spoke to my accountant last night and he informed me that 2009 will be a frugal year. I told him I was already frugal and had bought only one R-R in 2008. He told me it would have to be an 'austere' year....and he's a car man himself. I told him I already was austere and he told me to go and practise harder. Maybe Tatras will decrease in price? My research says otherwise.
Regards,
BenzBoy
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