#3 Povo update

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B13

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Can the car be driven without that nonsense on top the the seconary stage? If all its there is to smooth out transition from 2-barrel to 4-barrel operation, and its a race car, who needs smoothness??? If it violently brings on the secondaries, as long as its not breaking traction or causing the car to slow down before speeding up then I'd just remove them.

Ian.
 
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oscar

oscar

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So does this mean you've 'actually' nailed the problem??

Kind of. If it's just a matter of getting the spring tension right then I should be able to set it at the right point eventually. I tried for a couple hours yesterday arvo but couldn't do it. The spring came off at one stage, I thought I snapped it but it just needed re bending to go on the shaft.


Can the car be driven without that nonsense on top the the seconary stage? If all its there is to smooth out transition from 2-barrel to 4-barrel operation, and its a race car, who needs smoothness??? If it violently brings on the secondaries, as long as its not breaking traction or causing the car to slow down before speeding up then I'd just remove them.

Ian.

I agree. I was going to leave it off but then thought I'll try and get it the way it was first. A while back I mentioned somewhere how the car leapt like hitting a powerband. It's what the manual must refer to as "Stage Jump". (At the moment it "Stage Dives", rock on! :D ). Seriously, there's still a hint of it missing when going to full throttle. 1st gear works but the others are still jake brakeing, though not as bad as before. So I'm getting there slowly. but I think you're right. Might as well just can the dashpot for the mo. From my experiences yesterday, I would guess that if the spring is too tight, it behaves as if the spring is too light. Makes it difficult to judge the right setting.
 

SELfor50

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Hahah.. stage dive!! If it was rock, that'd be sweet!! :)

Any love on sorting the spring tension??
 
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oscar

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No love in the spring yet. But I did adjust the valves on the intake side. The engine sounds pretty tappety when it gets warm. Exhaust valves were good, didn't need touching. The intakes however had widened to nearly 0.20mm approx. Fac spec is 0.10mm. I've gone a tad under that around 0.09 I reckon. My feeler gauge set didn't have the exact measurements nor ones I could add up together.

As for the spring, tomorrow (Sunday) I'll try again and may end up looking at trying to jig up some sort of tool as per the manual to get an idea of how much tension there should be.
 

Michel

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As long as you'll show us what it's got on Nov 16 :p
 
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oscar

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It still hasn't got much.:( I did a bit yesterday, even rigged up a tool to set the spring tension more accurately but after a km or two there's still no second stage. After trolling all sorts of forums (particuarly some BMW ones), there's plenty more info and first hand experiences out there then I realised about the Solex. The float is a suspect now but in order to properly get it running right, it needs a teardown, clean, replace and rebuild.

But time's short, the Holley's ready and with much more online info (incl vids on youtube for tuning), the Holley will be going on in the next couple of days and the Solex will be sidelined. I'm not convinced there's anything terminal with the solex but I'm just not going to have the time to sort it out between now and Nov16.
 
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oscar

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ok, forget the Holley! The Solex is back and better than ever. :cool::cool::cool: I found a bucketload of info on the web the other night, mainly from BMW forums but although nothing pinpointed my problem there was enough info out there to give me the courage to take it off and strip it. Three problem areas existed.

1. It was full of crap and crud. Little tiny metal shavings came out of the fuel bowl plus lacquer in the primary jet valves and the secondary fuel valves were binding. I used a can of carb cleaner and it did wonders. I blew out all the jets and vents and flushed any bit of sediment out or off the carb.

2. The float valve is adjustable by way of bending the arm going to the float. To me this seemed too far bent thus causing a restriction of fuel during high loads.

3. Most importantly, there is a bakealite cam connected to the secondaries' air valve shaft. When they open, the cam operates a lever to open the secondary fuel valves. My thinking is that the binding of the secondary fuel valves and the forced mechanical movement of the secondary air valve has led to this cam breaking. The result is that the fuel valves remain closed and no fuel enters the secondary barrels.

The first picture shows the extent to which I pulled the carb apart. Note to the left of the pliers is the air valve shaft, then the lever to operate the secondary fuel valves.

27102008564mediumyv6.jpg



The second shot shows the broken cam that is mounted on the secondary air valve shaft and sits inside the "U" shaped section of the lever for the secondary fuel valves. A bit of Araldite and a few hours wait it was right to go.

27102008560mediumjz9.jpg



Third shot is what happens to a nokia when left on a rag soaked with carb cleaner :(

27102008563smallhg1.jpg


So although the camera still works, I wasn't in the mood to take anymore shots or video of the test run but by midnight I had the carby back on and went for a spin and the result is fantastic. The car runs smoother at lower speeds and the full acceleration is back. There is still a little bit of tweaking to do , especially to the idle mixture and spring tension to the secondary air valves but I'm happy for the moment to know it's working again :cool:
 

s class

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You're a brave soul forging into carbies, but I'm impressed. Well done.
 

B13

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A bit of Araldite and a few hours wait it was right to go.

Just be wary that Araldite starts to beak down from 65ºC, and by 80 degrees its practically liquid again... someone I know repaired an oil pump in a toyota with araldite believe it or not and it did actually work, until the engine warmed up.

From Selley's website:

"Bond strength weakens above 65ºC but strength is regained when temperature drops"

This might be something of an issue in the hot engine bay of a race car. Your best bet is to quickly get to a Pick-and-payless type wrecker with a number of 280Ss, and grab as many of these plastic cams as you can get your hands on.

Go the Solex of fire!

Ian.
 
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oscar

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Thanks sclass, nothing too em:rolleyes: actually they're complicated little beggars as everyone knows and weak IMO. There's slight hints of warpage internally. The mating surfaces are flat against the flat edge of a rule so that's good but there's evidence of perhaps overtightening and heat causing some distortion inside. Very minor and not affecting valves operating (yet). It's hard to show without having the carb in your hands to inspect but I can see that if it gets any worse the Solex will be renderred useless.

Just be wary that Araldite starts to beak down from 65ºC, and by 80 degrees its practically liquid again...

Oh Fug! Hmmm, didn't exactly research the glue well did I and although I thought I bought Selley's the glue's Chevron. Who? Exactly! A no name brand. I dunno, we'll have to see how it goes. I was in a bit of a rush and the only thing open yesterday evening was BigW, they had a few glues and things but I thought araldite might be the best. Should have bought Super Glue or something like that.

I'll be going for a decent drive later and will give it a workout but I'll have to make a cam from scratch I reckon.
 

SELfor50

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Great work O-man!!!!! F*kn shyte bout the phone!! :(

How you gonna do the cam from scratch and what does the cam do?? Could you make it a slightly different shape to make it more "Aggressive"?? dump a little more fuel for longer etc.. Then advance the timing? I'm probably totally wrong, as I have no idea bout carbs. :)
 
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oscar

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Thanks for the link Benzboy and interesting thought Cam. This old cam is worn anyway so who knows what the proper profile is. I mean, the manual has got a drawing or two that represents the shape and part of the leading lobe is flatter than it should be IMO. If I can make it more on/off in operation I will but I'll try and do something more or less the what the actual cam looks like. The valves only need a minute bit of lift to open anyway.

BTW, to quote Ian "Solex of fire" LOL, the day before I pulled it apart but after playing with the spring tension again I got a huge back fire through the secondaries and the top of the carb caught alight:D only a small flame but enough to get upset about.

Test drive today - Took it for a 20km race, so to speak, out into the back blocks and highway. Without the engine fan it idles away and heats up over 80 but still takes a while to get to 100 and for the electric fans to switch on. Even whilst racing the engine the car stays below 100 thanks to airflow and without a condensor in the way. It was a warm day, early 30's, and the secondaries worked well. Hesitation was noticed though if I stomped on the pedal and once it did actually do the "jake brake" thing for a split second till the fuel started coming through. Otherwise it was good. Only mishap is that on my way home and the last sprint I lost power as the throttle linkage fell off :rolleyes: (I forgot to do up the retaining nuts). Like I said before, just have to adjust the spring tighter again to see if it makes any difference on the bypass and also check the idle screws. It's still idling too high. Besides that, after tomorrow's test I'll be looking at replacing that cam with a homemade jobbie. Oh and change the steering gear. Still too much play.

Edit: I forgot to add that there's been no more backfiring whatsoever.:cool:
 
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oscar

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The cam is surprisingly holding together. The cars done maybe 100km's since then on a few trial runs and is still opening the secondary fuel valves. Haven't had a chance to make brass ones like wanted and instead have attended to other need to do things. Primarily the steering box and vacuum dashpot for the solex.

The dashpot has simply got a leak so I thought why not cut it open and repair it. I cut a small patch from a kids tyre repair kit but it wouldn't hold despite the surface being cleaned. I was going to give up and I just used what I had on hand which was araldite. Competely wong product to use but I did and it's working, though I need to change it. It's slowly leaking again from the same spot I hope, after working well for a while. Need to use something with a bit more flex like silicone. I put it back together using two blobs of solder which is holding well. The cut was on the vented side not the suction side so no need for an air tight seal there.







The big job was the power steering box. It took me about 12 hours over 3 days. Most of that was due to being a first timer and lessons learnt along the way. Undoing all the bolts and things isn't too bad, it's the wrestling with the box and alignment that I had difficulties with.

Although I have removed and replaced a coupling before and had real trouble with the allen bolts, these looked like they were going to give me hell too when my tool slipped in one of the heads so I soaked both in INOX then did something else for a while.



I took off the pitman arm. All that muck is due to the steering fluid leak from the box. The nut is a 36mm big one so I had to go buy one of those.



In order to remove the coupling though I had to allow the shaft to be withdrawn. I just took off the inner and outer circlips that hold that bearing and subsequently the shaft. I then mount the steering wheel and by hand apply the 22m retaining nut and give the steering wheel a pull. That should free the coupling from the steering shaft or the steering box. Either way the coupling can be slid or prized off both shafts afterwards.


Next thing is to remove the high pressure and return lines from the box then remove the three bolts, accessible in the driver's side wheel well, that hold the power steering box to the engine bay. In a 280 the box was removed by lifting it up throught the engine bay. Took a fair while of manipulating it to fit past hoses etc. The manual suggests removing the ball joints of the track rod and the drag link from the pitman arm. Would've made it easier to ease the old box down rather than lift it through the engine bay. Here's a pic of replacement(left) v old. On the ground the the old one's freeplay was noticeable by hand, feeling a knock when it changed direction. The replacement felt smooth.


So putting the new one in, I lowered it through the engine bay and rested it on whatever was in the way to stop it from falling on the ground. I slid under the car and held the box in one hand and applied the bolts with the other. Surprisingly, although the box is heavy, this took no time at all and although I thought I might have needed assistance from another person, it wasn't needed.
When I came to put the Pitman Arm on I struck a bit of trouble. It was too hard with the track rod still attached. It was physically limiting my movement of the Pitman Arm making the alignment of the notches impossible no matter which way I had the alignment notch facing on either box or arm. So I removed that ball joint and got the alignment I was after then screwed on the big 36mm nut.



I took out the bolt that covers the alignment hole for the shaft. Seen below is a gap in the box's piston where an alignment bolt would go to get the box in dead centre. No idea where to get that bolt so I just viewed it and turned the input shaft as necessary. The pic below shows it not quite centred yet.


Be damned if I could get that coupling to go on right though! In the process of getting the steering shaft and the box's input shaft far enough into the steering coupling so the clamping bolts clamp over the right indents, I had inadvertently shortened the steering shaft. These shafts are telescopic and a few blows with a mallet at the end whilst trying to put the coupling on will shorten the steering shaft. Whilst you can adjust the length in situ, I decided to remove it, it seemed easier.


Seen here is the hole on the left being obstructed by the thinner part of the shaft telescoping into the thicker part. I adjusted it back by putting the thin part in a vice and hitting laterally the thick section at the point where the thin section meets.


Once lengthened I loosely put the shaft back in the steering column then attached the shaft to the coupling. With the box in alignment I then made the alignment notch on the steering shaft (at the end facing the driver) point straight downwards (straight upwards for LHD cars). It appears in a pic further above. The shaft and coupling were then prized onto the steering box's input shaft. No hammers or mallets, the shaft and coupling are prized onto the box's shaft by levering at the notch at the left on the shaft towards the firewall with a long screwdriver . Once the notch become fairly visible I had to use something to act as a pivot between the end of the steering column jacket for my long screwdriver.


I put the steering hub back together and applied replacement race steering wheel.


The result was that it drove fantastic and didn't float around on the straights. Steering was much tighter, not just due to the smaller diameter wheel. Freeplay is still there but nothing like before. I don't notice it.


I also replaced 3 main coolant hoses up front, changed engine oil, Super Dot4 brake fluid bled in, new PS fluid and before I put the new oil in I tool off the old dented sump and replaced it. The newer one is a w123 style with a much smaller bolt for a plug rather than the trditional bigger 14mm allen plug.





 

B13

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That W123 sump looks brand new... probably a bit late to suggest it now, but if you were intending to install an Oel temp gauge on the beast the best time to install the sensor is when you have the sump off.

Steering box looks complicated. Glad none of my cars have steering issues. Sorry Camster, looks like a pig of a job.

I.
 
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oscar

oscar

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Never thought about an oil temp gauge. Extra gauges are going to have to wait for a bit. I think I wanna gut the instrument cluster and build my own. Can't see a damn thing with the 380mm wheel plus the grip is so thick.
 

Lukas

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Steering box looks complicated. Glad none of my cars have steering issues. Sorry Camster, looks like a pig of a job.

I second that, except that I do have cars with steering box issues. I'll make sure to allow at least a week.....
 
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oscar

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Steering box looks complicated. Glad none of my cars have steering issues. Sorry Camster, looks like a pig of a job.

I second that, except that I do have cars with steering box issues. I'll make sure to allow at least a week.....

I know I spent a bit of time cursing but the mistakes and subsequent learning is what took the time. Now I'm a pro:rolleyes: I reckon I could do one in a much shorter time but I wouldn't like to say for certain how long.

Some things seemed to take a few goes or I had to go backwards and repeat things. I don't know whether a V8's box could be lifted out of the engine bay. I reckon removing the track rod and drag link from the pitman arm from the get-go would be the ideal way to go to lower the old box and to raise the new one from underneath.
 

SELfor50

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Oscar, that's a sterling job you've done, and great documentation!! I'm not looking forward to the steering box / shaft work. I'm pretty confident i'm gonna be an armchair mechanic for that one. I'm pretty sure there'd be deeper chunks out of knuckles with a v8 engine bay.. :(

That sump looks trick after installation!!! is the capacity identicle?


After all that, i'm guessing the steering is tight as now?
 

Michel

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I am surprised no one ever asked...

Is that your spannering girl in the picture (in the avatar)?

Will the Godfather have the pleasure of meeting her then?
 

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