Disco Panzer

[ProfessorExperimental]

Air measuerer bits after much engine degreaser × brushing.


Still quite some varnish to go before OCD satisfaction, but realistically this is more than adequately clean.


I should be totally happy with this. The bearing doesn't turn but really, does it need to? It obviously hasn't done for ages and I can't see a flat spot...

But no. I had to go and get 2 different types of carby cleaner "to see if I could do better". Not Airflow Sensor Cleaner, mind, Carby Cleaner. Full strength.

The grime just hosed straight off with the spray. It was amazing. Like something off an infomercial. But then...


This is the dumbest photo I've ever taken. My fingers were already burning at this point, but I wanted to document what the Nulon Carby Cleaner did to my nitrile gloves for this PSA. As soon as I put my phone back in my pocket I ripped the glove off and ran my hand under the garden tap.

For at least 15 minutes. Until the burning sensation stopped. If you haven't experienced a chemical burn before I highly recommend continuing that trend. I'm assuming something in the carby cleaner depolymerises the nitrile and hydrogenated it because it felt a lot like a nitric acid burn, but I wasn't exactly going to grab a litmus strip to check the pH of the 20L bucket I was using to collect the water under my hand. Still felt tender the morning after.


I had also sprayed some into the metering barrel to free up the piston as well as into the injector ports in the fuel distributor, so the first thing I did after decontaminating myself was check those. Sure enough the paint on the control pressure port was melting into the shop towel. Ick.


My word it got the parts clean though. I basically changed gloves as soon as they were wet with overspray. Made a pile. Wrapped in shop towels and bagged em. Feel like a right ecovandal now thinking about that stuff sitting in landfill under what will one day be sports fields with a creek running through them...



OCD says yes. Common sense says no. Bearing rolls freely now.


Either Mercedes-Benz used to post-work their alloy castings, but only perfunctorily, or this has been handled by a previous Professor Experimental who was going to unleash the wild horseprs trapped within the mighty m116 with little more than a die grinder and a poor attitude to oil change intervals...

 

[Styria]

G'day buddy - how are you feeling ? On top of the world, or hanging upside down. Unfortunately, for reasons best known to myself, have not spent much time on TK during the last few months, but decided to look at this thread word for word. Boy, how are you surviving ? Are you actually getting anywhere ? I wish I could be more helpful to assist you in your endeavours, but I am just lost in the myriad of problems and issues that you have taken on. What stage are you on now ? Keep up the fantastic contributions on your part, but hopefully with better outcomes. You deserve it. Regards Styria

 

[Cruising]

X 2. Thanks for the build thread. I'm loving and learning from it.

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Glad you appreciate it! For the time being im as much using this thread as a notepad while I work as sharing the story, but if it's entertaining or informative then that us some extra motivation to keep pausing for photos and typing out findings etc.

In answer to your question Styria: I'm getting somewhere for sure. I'm basically rebuilding or testing everything one could or should with a non runner, but on the street. Not ideal but I sure am working through the checklist...

[2nd attempt]

real clean


Gear puller got the piston out after 3 days with brake cleaner sat in the "nose" end (in a sealed jar: hexane is highly toxic. Don't kid yourself like my old workplace used to. People at Foxconn died from working with that shit and it's dermal uptake...)


Man, those metering slits are THIN! We make stuff like this at work, but we use a CNC picosecond pulsed laser machining centre...


Before/after. This was with nothing more exotic than RP7 and a shop towel.


Protecting the piston from contamination...


...influenced how I put the pressure regulator in the ultrasonic bath with other parts.


Didn't think I needed to disassemble it more than this, as the pin moved freely.


The other parts post US. Spiffy.


Fuel distributor back together and piston in. Note replacement socket head cap screws instead of slot heads. No more shifters on screwdrivers!


Piston movement success.


More like it!


How I cleaned the hardline ends. How I set up the flapper.


This came out of my oil pan when I checked the dipstick and it was still mostly oily fuel and decided step 47 was "Jack up your car - again". It flowed in a way Bruce Lee would approve of. 14L came out. I poured fresh oil in with the drain plug out until the oil came out the bottom. I HOPE cranking the engine doesn't write it off now...


...because next up was 5+ cranks per cylinder compression check. Couldn't do #8 because there isn't enough plug thread left on the outside. Yay, helicoiling heads. My lifelong passion...


Snagged the sill trim "chrome" with my boot on the way out of the bridge deck one of the 8 7 times. Ripped apart some rust and some trim plugs. Swore loudly into the void. I am very ready for this car to become a garage queen, rather than a busy street queen...


A sort of homecoming.


Was happy to discover you can run fuel checks without injectors connected. Starting off the AFR 3mm Allen key adjustment from full lean nothing comes out. I got fuel slowly rising after about 7-8 turns, so that's where I'll start when it's time to yell "Contact!"...

Was not so happy with pressure checks. System pressure was around 5.5bar. OK. A bit high maybe.

Control pressure was...

...a different story.

Looks like I'm rebuilding a Warm Up Regulator too...
*sigh*

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

crap. typed a lot and hit the wrong key and lost it all. sorry folks, will retell the story later.

[Edit] Story now retold. See above. There was more humour before, but I can't remember it.

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

M100.985 data for applying my thought experiments to you 6.9ers:

107(=4.213")x95

Deck height 260 nominal
Rod length 166 (ratio 1.75 )
Poke is +0.25-0.15 so...
=> CH is 260-166-47.5=46.5
BE bore 58.6 => 55 journal (54.955 actually)
BE Journal width 52
Pin 26
BE width 25.875
Mains 69.955/74.5

Piston crown chamber:
Early HV 2.65x80 8.8:1 eccentric (~13cc)
Post 76 HV 3.9x80 8.4:1 centred (~19.5cc)
Aus/US 5.6x80 8.0:1 (~28cc)
=>(π×5.35^2×9.5)÷(28+79)=7.98 so 79cc CC in the head

Looks like stock 36/37 cams are 0 overlap, might need custom if m116/7 are shorter (can't imagine they aren't)

Pistons look at Ford 7.3L (4.220" bore - would make it actually a 6.9L, by 7cc!)
E.g. Wiseco K0551XS 12.5cc CH 33.55 pin .99" gives compression ratio around 9.3:1
So use a BBC rod (that's the pin size) eg Molnar CH7100VTB8-A 7.1" which suits a 2.2" journal and weighs 832g gives rod ratio 180.3/95=1.9
or bore to 4.466" and use JE 257983 CH 41.8 -3cc 682g with any (plentiful options, eg Manley 820g) 6.7" BBC rod. Leaves 0.7mm extra recess but either deck head/block/both or fit a custom headgasket i guess would be easy enough. gives 11.6:1 simple compression ratio (real would be about 11.1:1 or less, depending on recess remaining). BBM-B lol. 7.6L, btw. With 1.5kg moving mass per pot vs 2.2 (iirc Motec's measurements correctly) - before lightening the crankshaft to balance 5.6kg less . Hardest part might be sourcing a typeface-matched "7" to make the 450SEL 7.6 badge... and tyres. Plenty tyres.

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Worked out why my rebuilt WUR didn't solve the problem of the 10 bar control pressure...


Return fuel needed somewhere to go, and didn't have it. So I gave it. OHS got even better when I ran the hose back to the tank via the roof...

It coughed.
Then nothing (flooded).

Tried again next day. Got splutters. Tweaked mixture and air bleed. Drowned it again. Then whizz of doom from El Startero.


This arrived. Decided it couldn't hurt. Still only whizz from Starterius Decimus Meridius...


So I pulled the starter*


Not ideal.


Probably reman pinion clutch sticks out too far. Or possibly ring gear has burrs. Either way, my future includes welding and turning....


But my earlier today included driving to Greenacre for a nice shiny serviced starter.



Which got us to here. Then no guts to get up the hill. I tried a bit of tuning but by then it was all hot water and dying battery so I gave it a rest. And couldn't get it to run again. Sounds like I'm muntering the new (to me) starter too.


So at that point I admitted defeat and broke out the lifting gear. But I only got to here before wifu cracked the shits and accused me of trying to demolish her house with a crap yellow car that obviously rejects my advances completely and, well, she had a point didn't she...

She also now has nowhere to park but the street, as do I with the daily. So backwards progress there with 2 cars streetbound instead of one

*I trivialise this process only slightly, having to deal with no seized bolts this time but only fiddly and awkward access. But for the second time in as many months. So it still sucked.

Level garage/workshops seem in short supply around here, but I guess I have to make peace with never getting it in mine until it's been engine swapped or whatever... *sigh* Renting shedspace was not my goal for this car :/

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Yesterday

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Decided to try and forget about cars and progress the rest of my to-do list. I've been threatening to mill down the tree we lost in a storm in 2020 for, well, 3 years.


It's really nice wood. Very tough, but the old 076 can cope...


...or so I thought.


This is one of the bits of exploding clutch that missed my face by more than inches.


Managed to find most of them in the end.

Turns out those clutch covers are unobtainium now, so one less working vintage chainsaw too...

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Today

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

 

[c107]

View attachment 26634

it's now running and your new daily driver?

 

[abl567]

it's now running and your new daily driver?

Council towed it?

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Council towed it?

At least they'd have saved me the hassle of organising it myself

But srsly im beyond pleasantly surprised that it didn't get towed or even "dumped vehicle stickered" in 13 months on the street. Guess my neighbours like me...

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

New year's eve party, Experimental-style. Took me about 7 hours, start to finish.

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Gearbox stuff
W3B050 390Nm
722.3 hard to find different versions but none seems rated above 290Nm
722.62x-64x are the 580Nm ones, all others are 330 (or 380, or 400 for a few odd ones in the .68x or .69x region). Bells need adapters onto alloy m117

711.6 and 716.6 seem virtually the same but for starter placement. 11 in sprinters (rhs), 16 in cars (lhs, all. Possible late alloy m117 were all lhs, not sure but looks like all m119 were). Kangaroosteam for 16 adapters to m117.

Getrag 420G from e39 540i fits easy with 2 lower bolt holes different, but only relevant in Europe (and non rebuildable, boo)

716.100 is a G76/27A (the 350SE(L) one) 716.001etc are G76/27 (from earlier cars)
G76/27-5 also exists for 6 cylinder w123? 107?

T5 from BA on falcons is 26.5mm 23 spline input shaft and quite long (7.25" or so) and aussie only. Most American T5 is 10 spline. T5 in falcons is internally stronger for turbo (possibly T5Z, possibly a spec in between). Official rating of std T5 is 270furlongbushels or something, Z gears 330. G Force unconservatively rates their gearset at 500psiperyard.

164t ring gear for m116/7 all (uncertain)
160t on barra
164 on FE BBF, Modular 4.6/5.4 (Boss290 on pre-2010 FPV GT) and Coyote/Miami 5.0 (2011 on GT and stangs). TR6060 is 10 spline, 290mm clutch. 10 spline 250ish mm clutches are plentiful. Most BBF clutches seem to be that.
stuff it: tooth count only matters as a guide to FW diameter due to profile variation (i.e. Barra is probably a "10" flywheel" vs Windsor/Clevo/395 "11" flwheel" option (they came with 10" as well). Dellows make V8 Falcon bells in both diameters, with starters both sides (2 bolt rhs, 3 bolt lhs). TKO/X and T5 are not the same (CRS just multidrill). Toploader and single rail share one bolt of 4 (again many places multidrill). Just get the 3 bolt reduction starter to suit the Ford flywheel if going this route.

BBF bellhousings come in both rhs and lhs. Just use a 3 bolt ford reduction starter? They are about 6.5" deep to suit yank T5/TKO/TKX input shafts ( 10 spline ones). Aussie T5 leaves enough snout for adapter plate? Use miami (8bolt) modular (8 bolt) or Windsor/Clevo (6 bolt) flywheel redrilled, its pressure plate, but a barra clutch???

TR6060 is rated for 580Nm so that's yer go to OEM for RHS motors in future. TR3650 (AUIII - BA V8 Falcons and Tickford/FPV equivalents - use Transmax Z) is 490Nm. Easy to get about as cheap as barra T5s, but again RHS.

Ford 3.03 highly regarded for strength, probably best "in period" modification. I'm obviously struggling to not make this all about turning my nice-interior, all-electrics-working, original glass/wood/carpet vintage family cruiser into a nails-tough barely-idleable driftpig in a chromey 70s Benz suit... I mean, 210mm ring diff with a 3.46 ratio, t5 dogbox and a drag-spec SFI 351W flywheel and bellhousing behind an all-forged iron block 4.6L or 5.6L alloy V8 with double digit compression (boost?) and the biggest not-totally-obnoxious catless exhaust I can build would certainly be a car I'd like to drive... but maybe not own. For years.

W4A040 behind 5L 117 it is then if I can find one. Or rebuild the 116 minimally and keep supra rods and mustang pistons for another, more solvent day...

*sigh*

 

[c107]

my 560SEC has 455nm and a 722.3 trans, so at least the ECE 560s should do that, and even the Aussie 560 is 400nm

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

my 560SEC has 455nm and a 722.3 trans, so at least the ECE 560s should do that, and even the Aussie 560 is 400nm

Yeah I was always pretty sure the internet tables I found were incomplete/misleading. My understanding is that there is one beefed up version of the 722.3 that the 560s used, and all others are lesser to differing but substantial degrees. I should check the german W126 site etc again, i havent since considering the 5L swap. A bit like the W3B050 and the W3B050-but-it-came-from-a-6.9 with an extra 100Nm torque rating but less than obvious external identification between the two is how I interpreted what I'd read on the subject some time ago.

Basically it's probably irrelevant to me anyway, since I doubt I'd actually find one of the strong 4spd autos, and have no deep love of banded slushboxes anyway. I'm looking at manual conversions because A) they tickle my "solve an outstanding problem" fancy and B) barra and au T5s, single rail 4 speeds and saginaws, with toploaders and muncies as more spendy options are all plentiful and cheap enough right now to compete with questionable-torque-rating Benz autos for my attention, with the advantage of aftermarket support to rebuild for less, and stronger if need be.

I could always adapt the W3B to an alloy block too I guess, but where's the research relevance of that?

 

[c107]

Yeah I was always pretty sure the internet tables I found were incomplete/misleading. My understanding is that there is one beefed up version of the 722.3 that the 560s used, and all others are lesser to differing but substantial degrees. I should check the german W126 site etc again, i havent since considering the 5L swap. A bit like the W3B050 and the W3B050-but-it-came-from-a-6.9 with an extra 100Nm torque rating but less than obvious external identification between the two is how I interpreted what I'd read on the subject some time ago.

Basically it's probably irrelevant to me anyway, since I doubt I'd actually find one of the strong 4spd autos, and have no deep love of banded slushboxes anyway. I'm looking at manual conversions because A) they tickle my "solve an outstanding problem" fancy and B) barra and au T5s, single rail 4 speeds and saginaws, with toploaders and muncies as more spendy options are all plentiful and cheap enough right now to compete with questionable-torque-rating Benz autos for my attention, with the advantage of aftermarket support to rebuild for less, and stronger if need be.

I could always adapt the W3B to an alloy block too I guess, but where's the research relevance of that?

If you wanted to adapt an MB transmission, you can get adaptors and a standalone ECU to bolt up the 722.6, which is the good 5 speed. (the 722.5 is the weak five speed). Not sure it's really worth it though.

I saw a 450SEL with a manual conversion when In melbourne. Also rebuilt with 10:1 compression.