Mark, are the Centras on your Blue Flame, or in general, really that good or is it just a matter of visual appeal ? I mean, they do look nice, especially when nicely polished up. I'll have to find a picture of a 450SE/SEL that lives in Bright, Victoria and belongs to the manager of Mount Kosiousku (my God, I can't spell it and too lazy to look up). I met him in Bright, and in due course his secretary brought the car to Sydney and I refitted another interior to the car, and tidied it up generally. Regards Styria