Tatra update

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CraigS

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Following Styria's comments in another thread, here is an update on the Tatra 603.

That is most definitely the Tatra, and yes, VW sounding V8 summarises it pretty well. Parts are not that hard to find, but the language problem is. Not too many Czech's or Slovakians speak English, so what I do is to search for Tatra sites, eBay type places and anything else, and send them an email asking if they speak English and can they help with parts. I have been successful that way and have recently sourced new brake drums, tie rod ends, and various other parts - at prices that would put Mercedes to shame !
My aim at this stage is to get it mechanically sorted, and with the parts I have sourced recently, that goal should be achieved on the next trip. Front and rear suspensions have been rebuilt and the brakes are part way done - front wheel cylinders stainless steel sleeved, new steel and flexible lines etc. . Not sure whether I will actually get it complianced next trip, but I will be trying for that so I can register it with special interest vehicle registration. I think the only compliance issue will be seat belts (which is mandatory in Queensland and for all seats, including a child restraint) as there is no rear parcel shelf as such. There is a gap of about 18" between the back of the rear seat and the parcel shelf, as this is a storage area, but would not be strong enough for a seat belt anchor. A small amount of welding is needed to rear jack supports etc. but fortunately, a lot of work was done in the UK when it got it's MOT there. Unfortunately, it was not all to a high standard, so must be re-done and/or repaired properly. I also have a new clutch plate and main seal to install, but to remove the engine is literally 6 bolts, so the engine can be removed in less than an hour. Replacing the main seal looks relatively easy on paper, and the clutch likewise. The half shaft pulls out so very easy to align the clutch and pressure plates when re-installing.
Because it is an unusual car, I expect the compliance, roadworthy and registration guys to be all over it, so it is in my interests to make everything look like it is new or has been refurbished, so to that end, anything that you can see underneath is either being replaced, repaired, or powder coated so that they have little reason to complain or reject it.
Removing the engine will also give me a good chance to clean up the greasy gearbox, and to look at the cable that runs to the gear shift. Being a column, and a reverse H pattern, correct adjustment is critical to being able to change gears, otherwise it is all but impossible - I know, I've tried !
All going well, it will be on the road in September, but I also have to finish the 300b brakes, as I had the brake booster rebuilt, and still need to bleed the brakes before I can get a roadworthy for it. I allowed the registration to lapse as I am also changing that over to special interest registration. Another job on the 300b is to replace the timing chain and valve guides. It has done 105,000 miles on the original parts, so it is about time I think, and recently got the Classic Centre to supply the necessary parts - except the chain tensioner, which I managed to get free of charge from Sleeping Beauties as they were changing a 300b or c motor over to a 300SL and these use a manual tensioner.

LIke any classics, there is no end to the amount of work required and as good as they might be, there is always something that you are never quite happy with !
 

Michel

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Well done Craig,

Perseverance is the only way with such a rare car.
 
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CraigS

CraigS

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Thought I would share with you all my recently produced chassis plate. This was made by the company that I use to reproduce the Mercedes plates.

Tatra603.png
 
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s class

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That's beautiful Craig.

BTW, since seeing your occasional postings on Tatras, I have been reading up on them a fair bit. Fascinating. Keep the updates coming.
 

Styria

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Hi CraigS, thanks for the information on what is quite an intriguing car. Like S-Class, I made it a point to look up further details on Tatras in general and, to my surprise, it has only been in the last few years that passenger car production has been stopped.

I do recall actually seeing the streamlined version only as a kid in Austria and we used to think what a sinister looking car it was - sort of quite mean, and war-like looking - not sure if you follow my line of perception..as I said, I was a kid at the time.

To my mind, your version is a much prettier car styling wise and reminds me quite a bit of Panhards made by a French Company in the fifties. It was highly regarded (a step or two above VW and Puch) and it probably competed with Opel Records in those days. It was much nicer, however with more luxurious fittings - particularly the interior.

It is said that the creator of the Tatras in those days, Dr. Hans Ledwinka, was a far superior engineer to Dr. Ferdinand Porsche. I am not sure whatever happened to him, but he certainly had some great ideas engineering wise. Tatra Trucks in particular, in those days (after World War II) had independent suspension front and rear (certainly rear, anyway) and they seemed to have some tie-up with Magirus Deutz who produced a huge (capacity wise) air cooled two stroke truck engine - its noise was dominated by its cooling fan(s). BTW, it may not be commonly known, but Tourist Coaches of yesteryear were powered by super or turbocharged two stroke engines.

Anyway, getting back to Tatra - fascinating history, and probably somewhat of a failure on account of its location in a country considered to have been behind the Iron Curtain. Regards Styria
 
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CraigS

CraigS

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Anyway, getting back to Tatra - fascinating history, and probably somewhat of a failure on account of its location in a country considered to have been behind the Iron Curtain. Regards Styria

I guess that depends on how you define failure. Being a communist country, they were limited to the markets that they were able to sell them in, but they did pick up design awards in Germany at it's introduction. Production survived 20 years, and 20,000 + units with minimal changes - some changes to the grill, and front/rear bumpers, quarter windows added, brakes changed from 4 wheel drums to 4 wheel discs (unusual in that they changed to all 4 wheels), some dashboard changes, engine modifications, but in general, it was still the same basic car for those 20 years. As was the tradition, the cars were returned to the factory every 7 years or so for the latest updates, which could include a complete body change. This was one way of retaining full employment, and ensuring reliability, as these were only available to government officials and the owners of factories and would not have been good to have one break down. They were also fitted with electronic ignition - very rare at the time. Mine was returned to the factory in 1968, but must have just missed out on the disc brake upgrade.
Fidel Castro still has one I believe, that is fitted with air conditioning, which must have been a difficult installation, as there is really no room for the compressor and additional hardware. You can see how much room there is, or lack of, in this photo.

DSC01971.png
 
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CraigS

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Seems that Tatra spare parts prices are reaching the dizzy heights of Mercedes prices. I wanted to replace the ball joints as part of the front suspension refurbishment, so made a few inquiries with the contacts I have made. The first, a supplier in Germany, wanted EUR 173 each ! That's A$280 each !! After checking around further, I found someone else willing to sell a pair for EUR 130 - getting better ! Through a UK contact, he was prepared to sell me a pair for an undisclosed sum, but less than the German supplier, but he didn't really want to sell them if I could find them elsewhere, as he has two Tatra's and might have needed them at some time. The search continued until I finally found some for EUR 35 each ! Bargain ! So I ended up buying two sets - at least they might well be an investment for the future. There is no substitute for them. Here is a photo. They are pretty solid construction.

Balljoints.png
 

Michel

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What was the old saying?

It pays to shop around...:D
 
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CraigS

CraigS

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Just thought I would drag this topic up again as I have recently spent 6 weeks in Australia working on the Tatra 603 and some of the other cars. The Tatra is finally back on it's wheels after it's front and rear suspension and brake rebuild. Also fitted were a PBR VH44 brake booster (someone had stolen the original ATE probably a long time ago) and seat belts. Doesn't sound like a lot of work when I type it, but I can assure you that it was ! Had some problems with one of the wheel cylinders due to corrosion where the banjo fits on the reverse side of the backing plate, that required some creative thinking - photos below. This is not a permanent fix as the wheel cylinder will be replaced, but I wanted to get it back on it's wheels before returning to Turkey this week.Seatbelts were another interesting installation as the requirement is for retractable belts in the front, but of course there was no access at the base of the B pillar. I found a hole in the body between the B pillar and the rear door so we welded a nut to a 2 x 2" plate, and a piece of coat hanger wire to be able to feed it through. With a bit of manouvering, I managed to get the bolt onto the nut, pulled it up tight and riveted the plate to the back of the pillar. Job done ! Having had the brake cylinders on the front previously stainless steel sleeved, and having inspected the general area of the rear brakes, I concluded that they were OK. How wrong I was ! I decided to replace the handbrake cables, which necessitated the removal of the brake shoes. Usually, the piston will pop out of the brake cylinder - all that popped out of mine was a great collection of corrosion. What was stopping it, I have no idea ! 2 more sleeved cylinders later, and back in business. Next step on the next trip will be to get the car complianced and roadworthy certificate so that I can register it on club plates - when I find a club I can join that will give me the necessary documentation for club permits. Personalised plates have been bought and it's number is 603 CZE (Czechoslovakia). In Queensland, you can have a car on club permits with personalised plates, unlike other states.

I also realised that the stub axle was also connected to the strut with 4 standard nuts and bolts - no washers, no split pins ! This is a factory set up, as per the parts book, but I have modified this to castlellated nuts and split pins - not an easy job as the nuts were too large for the available space, so needed to be turned down and holes drilled in the bolts. Turned out rather nicely though.

Apart from the photos below, there are plenty more if you scroll through the Photobucket site - http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Aegeanfoods/My Cars/Tatra 603 1963/

Obvious corrosion

101_0647.png

Centre turned out and brass bush insert

101_0649.png

Completed unit

101_0651.png
 
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BenzBoy

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I love reading about the Tatra - the whole concept of the car appeals to me.
I hope it continues to go well Craig.
Clubs like the Vintage Sports Car Club cater for all sorts of marques that don't have their own club - or the Thorough Bred Sports Car Club.
Regards,
BenzBoy
 

Michel

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Nice to hear from you Craig....

Glad you are making progress on the Tatra...;)
 

BenzBoy

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Yes, but they all seem to have branches in other states - just under a slightly different name. And that adds to the confusion.
You could try a google search for QLD motor clubs - and if that fails let me know and I will find out through the VSCC what an appropriate one would be.
Regards,
BenzBoy
 
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CraigS

CraigS

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Just a quick update on the club permit situation. I spoke to Qld Transport and as long as the club is an officially sanctioned club, it does not need to be marque specific, or based in Queensland. I spoke to the MBCQ and they are happy to provide the relevant documentation for the permit (once they sight the car).

Hopefully the next trip downunder will see it terrifying the native Queenslanders !
 

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